tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post114365132067783227..comments2024-03-09T23:07:41.551-08:00Comments on Vegan Lunch Box: Kabobs & Crazy HairJennifershmoohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08663322884550580226noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1145125118214533872006-04-15T11:18:00.000-07:002006-04-15T11:18:00.000-07:00"People who would be vegans if they didn't eat hon..."People who would be vegans if they didn't eat honey are apians."<BR/><BR/>Hmm. I've never heard that term, but it's good to know, since I'm a honey-eater. When I'm talking to other vegans, I say "I'm almost a vegan, but I love honey" and when I'm talking to everyone else I just say I'm a vegan, because most people don't know that honey isn't vegan.<BR/><BR/>"Is it okay to kill roaches and not bees?"<BR/><BR/>I was still am omnivore the last time I had roaches, but I'm pretty sure I'd kill the roaches if I had them again.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Keeping an animal as a pet is "using" it for your comfort. Just saying."<BR/><BR/>I found my cat was abandoned in some bushes when he was 4 weeks old. If I hadn't taken him in he would have died. The fact that he cuddles with me and purrs until I fall asleep may give me "comfort," but he clearly loves me, so I see nothing wrong with keeping him around.Copy Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18152273437083075422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1144861765585935592006-04-12T10:09:00.000-07:002006-04-12T10:09:00.000-07:00If I were a breeder, contributing to the problem o...If I were a breeder, contributing to the problem of excess domesticated pets... I could see your point. But, like I think another Anonymous and I said, domesticated rabbits can't fend for themselves. So, I'm curious - what do YOU suggest we do with them?Taleiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521205925498194770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1144189521489416532006-04-04T15:25:00.000-07:002006-04-04T15:25:00.000-07:00Keeping an animal as a pet is "using" it for your ...Keeping an animal as a pet is "using" it for your comfort. Just saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143828267252259452006-03-31T10:04:00.000-08:002006-03-31T10:04:00.000-08:00I wonder who I would have to screw over at Obentec...I wonder who I would have to screw over at Obentec to get them to make a small lidded container. I'd rather not have to use plastic wrap at all, but I don't want to have to put yogurt in the larger container when it's more a side dish than an entree. I was happy to see that my peas didn't move around at all in the box, although any residual water from it made my vegetarian "chicken" nuggets moist. I'm getting so many ideas of lunches to pack in the laptop lunch from your site. thanks so much!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143812003905472472006-03-31T05:33:00.000-08:002006-03-31T05:33:00.000-08:00Here's the Amazon link to the best book on vegan e...Here's the Amazon link to the best book on vegan ethics I've ever read -- simple, straightforward and practical:<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/ljd8n<BR/><BR/>Even if you are just curious you could check out a copy from your local library if available, and if not just take a peek next time you are at your favorite book store.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143786047516427972006-03-30T22:20:00.000-08:002006-03-30T22:20:00.000-08:00Taleia,Good for you for taking care of those rabbi...Taleia,<BR/>Good for you for taking care of those rabbits! That's how I got my pet rabbit, Stew, a neighbor who let him loose into the neighborhood because they 'just didn't want to take care of him anymore'. Its just tragic that people are so shallow to believe that their convience is worth more than someone elses life. It makes me sick to think that these people also had small children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143767895611545172006-03-30T17:18:00.000-08:002006-03-30T17:18:00.000-08:00Heh... good point. I wonder...Also, in relation to...Heh... good point. I wonder...<BR/><BR/>Also, in relation to keeping domestic animals: If an animal is a domestic, i.e. a pet, letting it "loose" or "free" will probably kill it. I'm NOT being dramatic. I raise rabbits for the love of the small furries - definitely not for fur, meat, show, etc, but for companionship. I've even rescued a few- and something that angers me to no end is people who don't want the animal anymore and turn it loose in the backyard. It dies, eaten by a fox, cat or possum because it has lost too much of its wildness to survive. Thus, I'm sure Jennifer would agree with me, keeping animals kindly is not an outrage - it is a kindness. They cannot and should not be "set loose"Taleiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521205925498194770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143759920970147892006-03-30T15:05:00.000-08:002006-03-30T15:05:00.000-08:00I never thought about bees much, other than runnin...I never thought about bees much, other than running away when I saw one so I wouldn't get stung. What would vegans do if their house/apartment was infested with cockroaches, or ants, or termites? Would they just let them be or would it then be okay to call the exterminator? I know termites can make a house completely worthless, but what about roaches? They're dirty & gross but don't do any structural damage. You can't humanely trap them and let them free outside, like you can with rodents. Is it okay to kill roaches and not bees?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143759395774531562006-03-30T14:56:00.000-08:002006-03-30T14:56:00.000-08:00I'm not vegan and should probably keep my fingers ...I'm not vegan and should probably keep my fingers quiet here but it's fascinating watching people argue over honey. A poster above said that vegans don't use animals in any way. Even not riding horses and stuff. Is that true? Is that a common stance? And if so how do you wigh this against keeping pets?<BR/><BR/>Just curious.<BR/><BR/>KatieKatrina Gutlebenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07363176522879501737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143752465846955082006-03-30T13:01:00.000-08:002006-03-30T13:01:00.000-08:00Jennifer,I'm not sure if you knew about this alrea...Jennifer,<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if you knew about this already or not but just incase! I got my Animal Times from Peta today and there is a feature on Veg Kids. On page 4 there is blurb about your blog! It says:<BR/><BR/>Mealtime Muse:<BR/>Veganlunchbox.blogspot.com has photos of unique vegan lunches that one mom packs for her "groovy little shmoo".<BR/><BR/>- KimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143752407073725062006-03-30T13:00:00.000-08:002006-03-30T13:00:00.000-08:00I believe the reference was to queen bees being ar...I believe the reference was to queen bees being artificially inseminated as a breeding practice, ostensibly not their choice, which the author likend to rape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143751664200107732006-03-30T12:47:00.000-08:002006-03-30T12:47:00.000-08:00about that comment re: bees being raped.i'm not tr...about that comment re: bees being raped.<BR/><BR/>i'm not trying to be patronizing here, but exactly how can a bee keeper make his bees rape the queen?? rape is about domination, forced submission, and sadism. and as far as i know, those are all problems that exist in human beings, not insects. <BR/><BR/>please don't make comments like that just for the sake of being dramatic. there are other ways to get your point across. thanks you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143747826052742692006-03-30T11:43:00.000-08:002006-03-30T11:43:00.000-08:00I used to have citrus in my late lamented backyard...I used to have citrus in my late lamented backyard in CA with a lot of fruit each year. No neighborhood beekeepers that I know of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143747442902200892006-03-30T11:37:00.000-08:002006-03-30T11:37:00.000-08:00Here's an interesting article discussing honeybees...Here's an interesting article discussing honeybees, their effect on the environment, and their use as pollinators. The article points out that honeybees are not native to North America, that other varieties of bees actually make more efficient pollinators, and the use of honeybees has diminished natural feral populations of bees and resulted in a monopoly where farmers must pay to rent hives.<BR/><BR/>http://www.vegetus.org/honey/ecology.htm<BR/><BR/>It's interesting reading, regardless of your own stance on honey consumption.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143746263372150832006-03-30T11:17:00.000-08:002006-03-30T11:17:00.000-08:00According to Jo Stepaniak's article: "To collect ...According to Jo Stepaniak's article: <BR/><BR/>"To collect honey, beekeepers must temporarily remove a number of the bees from their home. During the course of bee management and honey collection, even the most careful beekeeper cannot avoid inadvertently injuring, squashing, or otherwise killing some of the bees."<BR/><BR/>She goes on to say that "there is no reason to take honey from bees other than to sell it." She said you could liken it to dairying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143744716718592282006-03-30T10:51:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:51:00.000-08:00>>But almond and citrus orchards, organic or other...>>But almond and citrus orchards, organic or otherwise, would not be commerically viable without bees, which are working for humans in this instance.<BR/><BR/>Annaliese: Point taken, but I still respectfully disagree!<BR/><BR/>Almonds and oranges are plant foods: therefore, I see them as vegan. Honey is a direct product of animals themselves: therefore, I see it as not vegan. <BR/><BR/>I really don't know if people could raise bees without eating the honey, but if they can: problem solved. But burning the bee's hives/sugar water/taking more honey than the bees can stand: all changing the natural life cycle of bees, IMO. I know some have claimed this not to be true, but I have heard otherwise, from multiple sources. <BR/><BR/>That said, if it's between a person using honey to control his or her allergies vs. medication that was (1) tested on animals, and (2) uses lactose as a base, I say go with the honey!Mollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15744306048642372564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143744217556593932006-03-30T10:43:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:43:00.000-08:00If anyone cares to read it, there's an excellent a...If anyone cares to read it, there's an excellent article on Honey on the www.vegsource.com <BR/>website under Jo Stepaniak's (Ask Jo) archives. I don't know how to link to it or I would.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143743579703478782006-03-30T10:32:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:32:00.000-08:00Regarding honey: it's not an issue of the exact c...Regarding honey: it's not an issue of the exact care/handling of bees, but the mere fact that honey is from creatures that are used to produce something purely for human consumption. By definition vegans don't use animals. Vegans don't go to zoos, they don't take horse drawn carriage rides, they don't exploit animals for any purposes. Period. <BR/><BR/>If you choose to eat honey, that's fine -- but the definition of what a vegan does or doesn't do is not predicated on food choices alone. That's the definition of a vegetarian. A vegan incorporates a certain creed of ethics into their beliefs...one of which is, again, not to exploit animals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143743224708470942006-03-30T10:27:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:27:00.000-08:00You're right - eating manure-fertilized veggies is...You're right - eating manure-fertilized veggies is not the same as eating a steak. But almond and citrus orchards, organic or otherwise, would not be commerically viable without bees, which are working for humans in this instance. If it's that relationship you object to, then almonds and citrus are as bad as honey. A huge percentage of honey in the US market is the byproduct of pollinating hives.<BR/>An important distinction to make is that you are not eating the bees themselves, nor changing their natural life-cycle, as with milk and eggs.<BR/>I'm not at all trying to diss on your beliefs, I've just been involved in a lot of farming and and local food movements and I think this is a really interesting line of discussion that bears lots of voices and examination. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143742978187690292006-03-30T10:22:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:22:00.000-08:00"And have you seen what animals do to a a hive in ..."And have you seen what animals do to a a hive in the wild? They don't just harvest honey and move on. They destroy the hive, completely. They don't leave a nice nesting place for the bees."---<BR/><BR/>since when is a vegetarian only trying to be as good as any other animal out there? isn't the point that we can make choices that other animals can't, so we should be more responsible. i know as a vegan we can each individually only do so much, but not participating in the commodification of animals is one of them. any animals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143742028215127212006-03-30T10:07:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:07:00.000-08:00>>any almond or citrus product from the US was pol...>>any almond or citrus product from the US was pollinated by commerically kept hives and eating them is no different than eating honey.<BR/><BR/>I totally disagree, but that's fine! ;) I mean, I'm not eating a steak just because my organic tomatoes were fertilized with cow dung. Just sayin'.Mollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15744306048642372564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143741900183730462006-03-30T10:05:00.000-08:002006-03-30T10:05:00.000-08:00I hope I don't come across as a militant vegan (I'...I hope I don't come across as a militant vegan (I'm not, I swear) but with honey: first, can't you keep bees and not eat the honey? I mean, if you're a bee hobbyist/enthusiast, and want to keep them, I think that's cool-- the same way with people who keep rescued farm animals but don't eat them or their products.<BR/><BR/>Also: I just think once we expand veganism to include honey, it's a slippery slope. Next, it's eggs from rescued hens or milk from cows whose calves have died. And then, the term "vegan" becomes meaningless and obsolete. I'm not "holier than thou" and I hope I'm not alienating anyone. . . but seriously, how many times do vegetarians get told "oh, we have fish, that's our vegetarian option." Okay. . . fish don't grow on trees, do they? ;) I just don't want the same thing to happen to veganism. <BR/><BR/>Like I said, I'm not going to hate on someone who eats honey. But bees are animals, too! Even if they're small and fuzzy, rather than big and fuzzy. ;)Mollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15744306048642372564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143741528579571602006-03-30T09:58:00.000-08:002006-03-30T09:58:00.000-08:00If you want to learn more about bee keeping read "...If you want to learn more about bee keeping read "Robbing the Bees: A Biography of Honey" by Holly Bishop. It's a history of the tight relationship between humans and bees and follows the author's own foray into bee keeping, as well as the life of a professional bee keeper in Florida. It's a pretty fascinating read - no matter how you feel about honey.<BR/>Hives cannot function in less than optimal conditions - commercial bee hives are not like factory farms. There are lots of small local bee keepers who treat their hives with nothing short of reverence (even in NYC where I live - there's actually a guy who keeps hives at the Bronx zoo, and other keepers all over the 5 boroughs!).<BR/>Also, if you are anti honey, you might want to keep in mind that virtually any almond or citrus product from the US was pollinated by commerically kept hives and eating them is no different than eating honey.<BR/>I respect the vegan stance towards animals and the environment - from both health and spiritual standpoints, but I personally see honey and bees as a way of reminding us that we are all connected to a vast and intricate natural world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143740953169893152006-03-30T09:49:00.000-08:002006-03-30T09:49:00.000-08:00"in the attempt to create "better" kinds of bees, ..."in the attempt to create "better" kinds of bees, queen bees are raped/inseminated."<BR/><BR/>That is unintentionally hysterical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16132334.post-1143738829151225822006-03-30T09:13:00.000-08:002006-03-30T09:13:00.000-08:00Jeanne, are you sure you were listening to the rig...Jeanne, are you sure you were listening to the right podcast? Erik Marcus is amazing. I haven't listened to the newest podcast so I have no idea what you mean by uniformed and unenlightened but I can assure you he has played a vital role in veganism and animal rights activism/reform. I've had the opportunity to meet him as well and both times I have been reduced to tears during his talks. He really does make you want to get off your ass and do something for the animals. My heart goes out to him and the work he does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com